hello, disrupters. happy new year. i'm karen finney. in this hour, if corporations are people, can they refuse women health care? plus, give florida, your tired, your poor, your needy, and they'll give them a cup to pea in. >> in florida they have been promoting forsd drug tests for people on welfare. >> a district judge shooting down the law requiring drug tests for welfare recipients. >> one-fourth rate of the general population. >> is this another win for the entitlement nation? >> a series of court rulings has

found it to be wildly unconstitutional. >> nice try. you get an "f" because we got you. >> a new battle ahead for obamacare over the birth-control mandate. >> the justice department has asked the supreme court not to allow religiously affiliated groups a temporary exemption. >> why has the full weight of the justice department come down on the little sisters of the poor? >> all the nuns would have to do to get out of the birth-control mandate is to sign a form. >> we're just a few days into the new year and already the war on women is heating up in our nation's highest court as we await a key decision from justice sonia sotomayor. at issue, whether signing a form puts a substantial burden on religious liberty. in this case, a nonprofit religious organization is challenging the affordable care act's contraception mandate. if you followed the debate last year you'll recall religious nonprofits like the little sisters of the poor are already

exempt from the requirement to provide health care plans that give access to free birth-control coverage to their employees. all they have to do is fill out a form. but the nuns claim the very act of filling out the opt-out form would mean simply allowing someone else to provide the service, and that would go against their religion. in a surprise move just before she let the times square ball drop on new year's eve, justice sonia sotomayor temporarily blocked the penalty for failing to sign the waiver. friday the obama administration responded with a brief that argued the applicants, quote, failed to satisfy the demanding standard for the extraordinary and rarely granted relief they seek. and now it's up to sotomayor to decide what happens next. joining me now, spencer overton, professor at george washington law school and jodie jacobson, editor in chief at rh reality check. thanks for being here. jodie, i want to talk a little bit about the

self-certification. i mean, it is already the case that if you are a religious nonprofit it is a matter of signing a form and you have the exemption. >> yes, absolutely correct, karen. in fact, they need only sign a form to say what they're already saying in public, which is that they disagree with having to directly provide contraception, which, in fact, they don't have to do because they're exempt already. >> what does that mean in practice for the women who might be an employee in terms of their ability to access care? >> in this particular case, the women who would work for the little sisters of the poor or any religiously affiliated organization would not have coverage under their direct employer. they might get that coverage for contraception elsewhere but not have coverage under their employer. >> spencer, two questions. one, i'm wondering if you were surprised by sotomayor's decision, and, two, talk to me

about this idea of substantially burdening a person's exercise of relg by signing a piece of paper.igion by signing a piece paper. >> we shouldn't read too much into the decision because she may have been wanted to be fully informed in terms of briefing the matter. in terms of substantial burden, the whole objective of having an exemption is to not burden these religious organizations. so limply filling out a form, if we said that's a burden and someone was a conscientious objector in terms of the military and filling out a form so that they don't have to serve, that could be a burden. and so if a court were to strike this down and say it was a burden, there would be implications in a variety of areas. >> it feels, jodie, what's really happening here is this is more of an attempt to try to get a case that can get to the supreme court and really undo access for these women to any kind of comprehensive care and access to contraception.

>> karen, you're absolutely right. i mean, we have to remember that going back to the aca itself and its passage, the bishops were concerned that there be anyone able to access contraception under insurance, never mind who they worked for. they didn't want that provision in there at all. this is an allout effort by the far right in the united states to take away-out effort by the far right in the united states to take away a form of health care women need but also opens the door to their being able to take away many forms of health care and other things with which they dils agree. >> spence, so on that point, what do we expect sotomayor to do? i read also there have been other rulings in the lower courts that seemed like it was creating a patchwork. i know the supreme court generally doesn't like to see that happen. >> right. she could either refer it to the entire court or she could just strike down this injunction in terms of either allowing a fine to be imposed against the little

sisters or she could say, hey, we're not going to have a fine, but let's allow things to go forward in the lower courts, which is possible. note, this is very different than the hobby lobby case, which is the for-profit corporation. this is nonprofit where there is an exemption. with hobby lobby, which we'll see a little later on this year, that involves a for-profit company. >> and i want to talk about hobby lobby in a minute, but jodi, i wanted to make this point to you. what strikes me also in this case is the women, the people, the individuals who work in nursing homes, i mean, they are low-paid employees. these are not people who make a lot of money. and they are the people who need the help the most. and time and again with these efforts that we're seeing from the right to try to impede access, it really does fall to damaging and hurting low-income women. >> absolutely. we already know from many studies that one of the biggest obstacles to getting access to

things like contraception on a regular basis is cost. and that cost barrier is highest for women who are lower income or poor, who make minimum wage, and so we have this situation where we have an employer denying an individual the ability to gain access to health care coverage for a form of primary preventive care. it's really -- it's really unconscionable, actually. >> okay. now let's talk about hobby lobby because as we're talking about this case, so this case is a nonprofit religious organization. hobby lobby is a for-profit religious organization. explain to us the difference and how the law treats each of these instances differently. >> well, remember, hobby lobby is an arts and crafts store and its owners are christians and they believe that they should not have to provide birth-control coverage here. so what the law does is it does not provide an exemption for for-profit corporations but it

does provide an exemption for nonprofits like the little sisters in colorado. >> we were sort of thinking about this, batting around with my team, if last year the supreme court said corporations are people, how does that weigh into potentially the way they could decide the hobby lobby case? because then are you saying people -- if corporations are people, then are these individuals who own this corporation, does that change the calculus in any way? >> right. on one hand, you should say hobby lobby should be an easier case because it's for profit, right? that's the objective, to make money as opposed to practice religion. right? on the other hand, the fact there is no exemption makes that case a little bit different. note that you could even have, though, an objector exemption with for profits, right, but just require that they pay their money for something like health care for veterans or something like that, because you don't want companies basically to just

invent religious objections to get out of paying for health care for their employees. >> right. jodi, i want to talk about sort of broader legal strategy here, because again, hobby lobby and little sisters both actually brought forward by the beckett fund for religious liberty. we know this is part of a strategy of a myriad of cases, frankly, around the country with the goal of getting to the supreme court weather the goal of not just undermining the affordable care act but really going after access to birth control for women. >> yes. so you have 80-odd cases out there that are both corporate and nonprofit. they're all joined at the hip with this, you know, very specific strategy aimed at reproductive health care per se, although, again, going back to yours and spencer's discussion, if they were to succeed in this you'd have the ability of corporate actors, corporations to determine what their employees could do in their

private lives, and that could be taken far beyond contraception. do you allow hiv prevention medication to be give on the people who might need it? you know, you can decide any number of, quote, unquote, health and lifestyle issues for your employees. it really has dramatic implications well beyond simply whether or not people get birth control. >> spencer, that's part of the issue for me. i think oftentimes we kind of push these issues and say it's really about birth control, that's just woman's issue, but actually there are much broader implications here if you start to say that your employer has this kind of say over different aspects of your life. >> that's absolutely right. i mean, you could envision a scenario where a corporation would say, hey, my religion believes that white folks or straight people are better than others, right, and as a result i can discriminate against people of color or gay folks. >> right. we are going to be watching this case very closely and i think a lot of american women are going to be watching this case

closely. thanks to spencer overton and jodi jacobson. >> great to be here. thank you, karen. coming up, it's time to give the president some credit on the economy. first we're off to the races. the 2014 matchups we think you'll want to watch. >> the republicans that are guilty, they've got to go. the guy isn't doing the job, let's put somebody in there that will. it's nothing personal. this was a great car. in its day. but now it's just old. it's got to be retired. this car has to go. is this the bacon and cheese diet? this is the creamy chicken corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups.

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all right. great news, disrupters, the dawn of 2014 means we've entered an election year and ten months from today voters head to the polls for the midterms decide

ing who controls congress and the nation's statehouses. these contests have real and lasting impacts that are felt long past election day. just think about local everies to scale back women's rights or to suppress the right to vote. these races matter. and believe it or not, they are already under way and they're competitive with candidates who are now battling over the affordable care act, immigration, and the minimum wage. so we sized up the field to bring you what we think are some of the most fascinating races and faces you will see vying for office this year. here to help me assess the map are malika henderson, national political reporter for "the washington post," and chris cafinas from "the washington post." >> happy new year. >> the cook political report analysis has these nine states with races considered kind of a toss-up or just leaning republican or democrat. i want to begin with a race that was in the headlines this week. ohio governor john kasich up for re-election, a rare gop governor

who expanded medicaid in his state. but on tuesday a tea partyer, ted stevenot challenged he will challenge kasich on the right. it seemed up until that point that kasich was on pretty solid footing. so what's your take, nia, on this race? >> you know, i think he's still pretty much on solid footing still. this candidate doesn't look that serious. you have to look at kasich. he's very politically smart. i think the nod probably goes to him. i think across the country you'll see these tea party challenges from the right, but i think in this case, my money is on kasich, and i think if he does win he would look like a strong candidate also for 2016. >> chris, one of the things that strikes me is in these governors race where is we're talking about potentially having a tea party challenger, that's different than a jergerrymander

congressional district because they can't go as far to the right. do you agree with that theory? >> yeah. it boxes them in, especially in a state like ohio where this was a state that, you know, three, four cycles ago people would say it was clearly a red state and i would say more so now it's a leaning blue state that, you know, kasich has figured out a way to win it. give than reality, sitting right puts you in a bit of a box. you're out there governing. you can't go out and kind of run a traditional primary campaign so, if there's any kind of groundswell or hidden like opposition amongst the republican, you know, base against kasich, you know, he could find himself a little bit of a challenge. i think he kind of survives it, but it helps kind of rough him up and weaken him for the general. >> next, tom korbut, pennsylvania. 56% say he doesn't deserve re-election. 53% disapproval rating. he is definitely not doing very well.

chris, he was one of the place where is we saw some of the worst infrastructures in terms of disenfranchising voters in the last presidential election. >> i think governor corbett is done. >> okay. >> i don't think there's any way literally -- if you look at the polling, he's kind of a trifecta of all bad polling. he's got bad approval numbers, bad head to head numbers against all his potential democratic opponents, and he's got bad kind of favorability numbers. i'm not sure how he overcomes it. he's just not a really good candidate and hasn't been a good governor and it kind of shows. >> a republican legislature there, i mean, has been no real fan or help to him. he recently tried to privatize the lottery there and they had pretty much stood in his way of getting things done. he doesn't have those kinds of issues to run on that chris christie had to run on, this idea of really reforming pensions. so he doesn't have much to run on. he's got a pretty strong challenger there in allison schwartz. >> all right. let's move on to the senate where we have 35 seats up for

grabs, 21 of which are democratic held seats. the cook political report analysis shows ten races including mitch mcconnell, facing a tea party challenge on the right and a strong democratic challenge from democrat allison grimes. but we wanted to take a look at three women in particular because just this week three women senators, north carolina's kay hagen, new hampshire's jean shaheen and louisiana's mary landrieu are all being hit with an ad from the americans for prosperity. and nia, so it strikes me, they're going after them on obamacare. we have a little piece of the ad against landrieu, and then we'll talk about it. >> if you like your current insurance, you keep that insurance. period. end of story. >> those individuals who like the coverage they already have will be able to keep their current plan. this is a very accurate description of this bill. >> but now louisianans are finding out that they lied. >> basically you said what the president said. any regrets?

>> no, wolf, what sofer. >> tell mary landrieu it's about people, not politics. >> so nia we're going to obviously hear and see that kind of campaign again and again and again over the course of this next year. how are democrats going to be able to -- is that going to work, i guess, is is my question for you. >> well, you know, one of the things that landrieu is doing is very much running against the president against this particular issue and going out there and saying she wants the president to -- the changes she put forward reversed this. she had 90,000 people lose their insurance because of this law and people flooded her offices there really demanding some change and complaining about this. but she's very smart. she has won based on a coalition of suburban voters and black voters. the question here is, is she going to be able to keep that coalition together, because, listen, if she stands up to obama and says, listen, i want obama to reverse course with some of this obamacare stuff, then she risks alienating

african-american voters, which is also smart, running a race almost like a governor's race, focusing on local issues like flood insurance and in that way i think she's running a pretty mart race. treacherous waters down in louisiana for kay hagen. >> chris, the thing that strikes me about that. louisiana is also one of the state where is the governor didn't take the medicaid money so, in theory there is a case as a democrat to be made to go on offense to talk about the need to help cover people, because again the argument has been the more the rollout continues the more people who are signed up, the more people using the plan, the more people have positive experiences. it makes it less of a liability for candidates and more of a positive for candidates. >> well, i don't think you have a choice. at this point, you know this, you have to go on the offense and i think you have to go out there and tell your own story. when it comes to obamacare in terms of the positive, in terms of helping people with pre-existing conditions, helping folks who otherwise would not have had health insurance who now have it, i mean, you've got

to go out there and tell the positive story. i think landrieu had started doing that on the positive side as well as going on the offense in terms of wanting some changes. i think you'll start seeing this amongst other democratic candidates and i think they're going to mix that with a very strong offensive campaign against their potential opponents because one of the mistakes that republicans make is they look at an issue like the rollout that, you know, has not been good, obviously, they think that's somehow going to be a panacea that will win them races. that becomes just a sliver or an issue, you know, platform. it does not become the way to win these races. and democrats i think have got to be smart enough to understand that and be, you know, willing to go very aggressively against their opponents and undercut them so they don't have the ability to let them make the story you define yourself. >> two more races i want to get to, house races, both kind of fun. nia, i'm going to -- speaking of women candidates, i want to ask you about utah congressional candidate mia love. got the little --

>> nia mia. >> how could i not ask you about her? >> that's right. >> but she lost last time but i think it was 768 votes in 2012. >> mm-hmm. >> she is a darling of the republican party, considered a rising star. what are her chances? >> her chances look good because jim mathison, who beat her by, you know, less than 800 votes last go-around, is not running. so she, it seems to me, has got a clear path to this seat. this would make her the first black woman republican in history ever in the history of ever. and so you imagine that she is on a path to be a real darling for a party that wants to show it's more inclusive, wants to show not only of african-americans but women. i think it will be really interesting to see the kind of race she runs there. and if she wins what kind of congress person she will be and whether or not she would join the congressional black caucus. >> indeed. chris, last one to you. i think this one's pretty fun.

clay aiken has reportedly said -- he's reportedly said he's actively considering a run for congress. i have to be honest with you, what struck me about that, and i'm only half jobing when i say this, is that being a reality tv star and being in congress are not so different, actually, these days. >> which is worse? >> exactly. i think probably being in congress is still worse. what kind of chance do you think he would have? >> celebrity candidates -- here's the problem. you know, running for office, let alone being in offense is not like an episode of "the west wing." it's a tough, brutal business. when you're running for office, especially the first time, you have to go out there and fund raise, campaign. it's incredibly hard work. you actually get the elected you're at the bottom of the rungs. for celebrity candidate to deal with that ego-wise is difficult. >> yeah. >> you know, listen, i think much like ashley justice

department -- ashley judd, this is a nice kind of ego thing for celebrities to think about. very few have the skill or the temperament to deal with it. senator franken beam was an exception to that rule, someone smart enough to understand how hard it is to run. so it all depends on how serious they are. but if they're not, you know, don't do it. do another yes reality tv show. >> we shall see what ends up happening. >> yes. >> nia malina henderson and chris kofinis, thanks so much. >> thanks, karen. >> thank you. next, governor rick scott vows to continue the fight to drug test florida's poor just as convicted drug offender trey radel gets set to return to the house. move along, no irony. >> governor, you benefit from hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars every year. so would you be willing to pee into this cup to prove florida

taxpayers you're not using that money for drugs? >> i've done it plenty of times. >> you would? >> i've done it plenty of times. >> if you would pass this forward to the governor. you can all turn around. it's fine. of the little room over the pizza place on chestnut street the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i-95. ♪ this magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. and of those who believed they had the power to do more. dell is honored to be part of some of the world's great stories. that began much the same way ours did. in a little dorm room -- 2713. ♪ this magic moment ♪

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♪ oh are we early? [ male announcer ] commute your way with the bold, all-new nissan rogue. ♪ an arctic blast shattered records across the northeast. joins me is richard lui in boston. richard, how is it out there? >> reporter: well, karen, you know, it's good to be in boston, one of my favorite towns in the country, but, you know, we saw a negative 1 earlier this morning when we first got out here. but that's not nearly as bad, not nearly as disruptive as what we will see in the midwest. today they're seeing current temperatures at about negative 4. tomorrow in bismarck they'll see negative 14. in minneapolis, they'll see negative 9. they'll hit like negative 20s and then on monday we'll see more negative 20s, but, listen

to this, because of 15 to 25-mile-per-hour winds there, that windchill temperature on the skin will be as low as negative 50. that is 40 to 50 degrees lower than normal in that area. folks are concerned there, karen, as well as that storm will be moving this way. it's coming right here to boston. we'll be warming up here up until the 50s on monday, but then come tuesday it's going to get cold. i just want to show you this over here real quick. kids are enjoying themselves. birthday party. >> with a little bit of snow. that's perfect. >> reporter: yeah. they're enjoying it while they can, and why not, because as i mentioned it's about to get really cold and that's why the entire midwest has been very careful as they gear up to monday. >> all right, richard. i'm going to let you go. but i want to see you build a smoeman or something with all that snow you have piled up behind you. take care. >> i piled that up by myself. >> take care. we'll be back after this.

don't forget, you can disrupt the conversation all week long. find us on facebook or tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. [ children yelling ] [ telephone rings ] [ shirley ] edward jones. this is shirley speaking. how may i help you? oh hey, neill, how are you? how was the trip? [ male announcer ] with nearly 7 million investors... [ shirley ] he's right here. hold on one sec. [ male announcer ] ...you'd expect us to have a highly skilled call center. kevin, neill holley's on line one. ok, great. [ male announcer ] and we do. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. ♪

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and grandma wins. [ giggles ] [ female announcer ] tide, downy, and bounce free & gentle. great on their own, even better together. this week a scathing decision, a federal district judge dealt a major blow to rick scott's signature achievement, striking down his drug test on floridians on welfare as unconstitutional. the judge wrote, "it is simply no competent evidence offered op this record of the sort of pervasive drug problem the state envisioned in the promulgation of the statute." it's a ruling that made permanent a previous decision halting the statute which rick scott campaigned on in 2010. he claimed then it would somehow save florida $77 million. well, it didn't and the state has actually lost money because of the drug test. his other rationale, as he told

cnn, the high rate of drug use among welfare recipients. >> studies show people on welfare are using drugs much higher than the population. >> yeah, right. we invited the governor, who's promising to appeal the judge's decision, to join us today and he sent the following statement that says in part, "we should have a zero-tolerance policy for illegal drug use in families, especially those families who struggle to make ends meet and need welfare assistance to provide for their children." we also asked his office for those studies because when you actually look at the numbers in florida, 2.6% of those tested while the law was in effect failed. usually it was for marijuana. that is much lower than the national average. so joining me now to discuss, daryl hahn from florida and maria cairo, associate director for the afl-cio of florida representing the plaintiff in this case. thanks to you both. >> thank you, karen. >> i want to start with you,

maria, because one of the things that struck me about this case is the plaintiff in particular has such an interesting story as a navy veteran, a young father. he's in school. i would say, you know, doing all the right things and just essentially needs assistance, which is supposed to be the social safety net, that's supposed to be part of our values as americans, and as a veteran he understands drug testing and yet essentially now that he is just asking for help the state of florida is saying no, you have to be drug tested before we help you. >> right. louis lebron really blew the old and persistent stereotype of welfare applicants and recipients out of the water. he's a veteran, a single father, a law student at the time, and takes care of his disabled mother. no different from you or from me. >> one of the things i read,

this idea of having to take a drug test is part of the fourth amendment to the constitution an illegal search and seizure. >> that's correct. the constitution only allows reasonable seizures. and if a search is done without suspicion and is blanket like the law in this case required, that's an unreasonable search. that's why it's a violation of the fourth amendment. >> dara, one of the things that scott likes to claim is the drug use among welfare recipients is much higher. but if you take a look at the statistics, that actually hasn't really borne itself out. 2.6% of florida welfare recipients failed drug tests. 9.2% in population aged 12 and older. point being by the number, and we haven't seen sort of his data or his analysis, they don't really -- the record does not seem to match the reality. >> there doesn't seem to be any

data that indicates that people who receive welfare or cash benefits use drugs at a higher rate than the rest of the general population. it seems as though this is really more of a political issue. the governor campaigned on it, as you said, when he was running for governor in 2010, and it polls really well among republicans shortly after the lawsuit was filed in 2011, a quinnipiac university poll of floridians showed that more than 70% of floridians supported testing welfare recipients, and that was 90% of republicans favored it. and one of governor scott's aides at the time told me when the first ruling came down barring, you know -- the preliminary injunction came down, told me they wanted to take this to the supreme court, that they didn't care, really,

what -- whether it was constitutional or not, that it was a public issue for them to gain points with his constituen constituency. >> dara, having worked in politics a long time, when you're looking at the kind of numbers that rick scott is looking at in terms of his popularity and you're looking at an issue like this, which, as you say, here we have in the governor's race charlie crist at 46%, rick scott at 36%, and then you, you know, take a look, as you pointed out, at the popularity of this particular issue among republican voters, that seems to suggest a campaign strategy to me that is less of what is good policy. >> well, i wouldn't say necessarily that it's a campaign strategy. you know, it's -- i wouldn't say this appeal or intent of appeal hasn't been filed yet, is designed specifically for his re-election campaign. but the timing of it is does bode well for him. he's under water with floridians. he's been unpopular ever since

he was elected. he's less than 50% and ranges around between 40% and 47% in terms of his popularity. there's been polls that have showed that more republicans than not want a different candidate. he's going to have a tough race against former governor charlie crist. >> right. and maria, you know, one of the things that strikes me is we've seen this. this is not just in florida. we're seeing this alec and big pharma have been pushing these kind of laws. we have nine red states passed this year, 29 states have introduced laws like this. so, again, this feels like more of a broader strategy, and obviously i come from politics so i will see it as a political strategy not necessarily good policy, particularly since we keep hearing from the justices that it's unconstitutional. but that really it's a political issue and part of sort of this war on the poor, class warfare about who's deserving and who's

not. >> right. governor scott and the legislatures across the country that have passed similar laws won't let facts or the constitution get in the way of their agenda. it's one thing to tout these policies as part of a campaign. but frankly they're not doing so well in the courts. he's not doing so well. but that isn't stopping him from, governor scott, from pushing his political agenda on the backs -- using poor people as an excuse and relying on these disproven and prejudicial stereotypes. >> unfortunately i think it is a strategy we may see into the 2014 election. dara and maria, thanks to you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, the economy is booming. well, sort of. so why are so many families still feeling the pinch? we answer the question what if speaker boehner and the boys really did work with president obama?

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our focus as a country this year shouldn't be shrinking our economy, but narrowing it. not fewer jobs but doing everything we can to help our businesses create more of the good jobs that a s that a grow class requires. that's my new year's resolution, to do everything i can every single day to help make 2014 a year in which more of our citizens can earn their own piece of the american dream. >> that was president obama in his first public address of the

new year, urging republican members of congress to work with him in keeping america on the road to economic recovery. yes, the president is once again reaching out to the very same republican congress that has obstructed his efforts for years while on the one hand while consistently arguing that his policies are a failure on the other. now, as we know, the gop's rhetoric does not tend to match reality, because whether they like it or not, our economy is showing clear positive signs under president obama. unemployment is down to its lowest level in five years. the gdp is up to 4.1%, and the stock market rose 3,000 points in 2013. the number of housing starts also increased last year along with the number of u.s. auto sales, and we've added more than 2 million jobs from january through november alone. now, the numbers, they just don't lie. 2013 delivered solid signs that the economy is improving. here to help me take a further look at the numbers and talk about economic truth, explore the various means of

obstructionism the president will have to overcome, political analyst at the gree owe dotcom sa lena maxwell and managing product manager for think.org, igor. thanks for being with me. l we have a series of charts that i thought illustrate the point. the first one sort of ill straights this idea that, you know, basically the rich got richer. you can see sort of the winners and losers, then essentially what happened as, you know, stocks and all of these things improved. that benefited the top wealthiest 1% and did not actually trickle down to the rest of us. >> these are long-term trends we're seeing, kind of exacerbated now, and it's part of the reason why so many americans don't trust government, because for so many years they've seen the government has helping just the very, very rich, the very, very few. now the president is looking into 2014 and asking what can we

do as a country. i'm a little optimistic about 2014. >> tell us why, igor. >> because, well, because in 2014, 2016 looms very large, certainly larger than it did in 2014. and so republicans know that to win a national election they're going to need to do something on immigration, they might need to do something on pre-k, invest in our children and the education system. they might need to do something on minimum wage. and those are all issues that empower lower-income americans and help close that gap. so there might be some hope on the horizon. >> igor's hopefulness aside, still early in january, so he's still feeling the glow from new year's eve apparently. but here's the thing. we also saw that essentially wages for american worker, while their productivity increased, their wages remained pretty flat, and they didn't see the benefits of those increases in

productivity. that wasn't invested back into workers. yet president obama, as we were just talking about, he campaigned on this idea not that long ago, and he had -- the thing he also has proposed is an overhaul of business taxes and loopholes to create funds for investment and job creation but at every negotiation what we hear from the gop is we can't touch the 1%, can't touch tax loophole, can't do it. >> right. it's amazing to me they don't remember that. they lost in 2012. and the entire message was democratic policies will help those at the bottom and will lift everyone up. republicans were the exact opposite and they've governed that way. and yet they lost and don't seem to get the hint. and i think the bottom line is, it's not just obstruction, it's also destruction of the u.s. economy by bringing us to the brink of default more than one time and blocking anything and everything that would help to create jobs and help those people whose wages are stagnant. >> actually, igor, to that point, sort of toying with

consumer confidence has been a real problem because as we've seen, i think we have a graphic here that we'll show you in just a moment, you know, that sort of whipsawing has actually not only hurt consumer confidence but also has hurt our confidence with the business community and frankly the rest of the world, are we going to shut down, not shut down, our credit rating is is lower and we're facing something to that effect coming up in february with the debt ceiling conversation. >> and you see the business community a traditional ally in the republican coalition kind of waking up and saying maybe some of these tea party guys, these ideologically pure candidate who is don't want to increase any taxes, who just want to cut social programs, maybe they've taken this a bit too far. i mean, to the point where they're toying with the debt ceiling, where they've shut the government down, and that's why you see this tug of war within the party. i think at the end, in 2014, you're going to see more of the traditional business friendly

republicans come into power. and i think they're much more likely to compromise with democrats than the current tea party set. so there's another example maybe of some optimism moving into the new year. >> i want to talk about jobs and wages because that's another thing the president tried to address in the american jobs act, which he proposed. he has also tried to -- kind of did it in one big package, then last summer cut it up into pieces and talked about let's invest and how do we do that in such a way we're creating jobs and training programs and so forth. yet the gop continued to block it. the bare minimum thing we're trying to get done right now is an increase in the minimum wage. >> which is a winning issue for democrats and republicans if they were willing to hop on board, but yet they don't actually want to govern the country. they don't want do anything that is helping folks. and so we just see them in there say nothing to everything, even if it's something that is a bipartisan issue like the minimum wage. >> actually, got a little sound to just share with you how the

republicans feel about the minimum wage. >> minimum wage laws have never worked in terms of helping the middle class attain more prosperity. >> i don't think raising minimum wage and history is clear about this, doesn't actually accomplish those goals. >> when you raise the price of employment, guess what happens? you get less of it. >> you know, part of what strikes me is, again, when we get to the fall elections, we have to remind voters that that is the tune that republicans were singing when it came to the minimum wage and to some of these other things we've been talking act, ideas to further stimulate the economy and create jobs versus the president and democrats who starting on monday are going to try to push both for unemployment insurance and the push for the minimum wage. >> increasing the minimum wage to $10.10 will pull that 6 million people out of poverty. that's really remarkable when you talk about how that's going to grow the economy. that's really something i think that lawmakers on both sides should be asking for.

and republicans are now saying no way, it's never been proven to help, i mean, they voted for a minimum wage increase under bush, several times. so yes, this is political, yes, this is about being against obama, but when these folks have to go home, talk to their constituents, in some of the district where the races are actually competitive and i think again on the national-foot level 2016, i think, at least i hope, i hope there's going to be some room for that. >> igor is hopeful. lee and i are a little more skeptical. regardless, i think this issue will be critical in the midterm elections because i think it will be an obvious choice of priorities between are we really going to protect the tax loopholes or help our people make the money they need to live. we shall see. thank you so much. >> thank you. that does it for me. thanks so much for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. you can find us on facebook and tweet ut @msnbcdisrupt. see you tomorrow afternoon at 4:00 p.m. eastern.

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